More on color....

[cuban]

In the past, I have generally culled all females with black ticking in the hackle: until the year before last.

I was perusing through an old poultry book by L. Wright when I came across his description of Nankins. He claimed there were basically two colors seen in the female: one wheaten and one buff (my term). He also stated some of the females showed black ticking in the hackle.

After reading this I became aware that our Standard description of the Nankin was put into the ABA Std. with a qualifying meet and that most of the people who had a hand in writing it had never seen a live Nankin.

When one looks at the New Hampshire Std. you will find that black ticking is allowed in the hackle of the female. You can bet your bottom dollar that was placed there by people who were actually raising the bird at the time the Std. was written.

Thus, I saved some females with black ticking in the hackle that showed the best type. After placing these females in the breeding pens, I found they threw my best colored cockerels who had no black in the hackle.

Now, I'm not planning on showing these particular females as long as the Std reads as is. However, I am using them in the breeding pens with excellent results.

Any thoughts?
cuban

[nanfan]

Cuban, I had several hens who were clean as a whistle in the neck only to moult out with a small tip of black this past fall.  Two of these hens are at least 4 years old and this is the first I've seen of black in the hackle.  I am guessing this is related to the wheaton base since many wheaton hens show some degree of black in the hackles but the roos are almost always clear of any black striping.  I am also of the opinion that when pairing up breeders, you should match breast color in both hen and cock bird, and match the part of the wing tips that are visible when held naturally in both birds.  Some of the points brought out lately should be discussed and the standard updated to make a breeding pair that is compatible and reproduceable.  I think our hens are getting too light in color and our roos are the better colored of the two generally.  JMHO, Charlie

[Nicki]

I've been wondering about coloring too.  I've been breeding out the black ticking and this past year finally got all my chicks to turn out with the light down and clear backs.  But my hens still range in color from a really light buff to a dark chestnut color (I'm guessing?) Whatever it's called, it's about the color of the roos' chests.  What I'm wondering is are all the ranges of color acceptable or not?  I'm posting pics of the three kinds I'm getting (I know they're not good pics...the hens would NOT stand still so I had to take the pics quick or not get any LOL)  I'm not sure if their color will pick up very good either...

Naomi - the lightest hen I have (she doesn't normally stand like that LOL)


Nina - she's a beautiful rich golden color, one of my favorites.


Narnia - one of the really dark ones; her feathers are actually laced, while the other two are solid and blended in color.  When she was a chick and feathering out I actually thought she was a rooster because she was the exact same color as her brother!


I've also noticed that several of my Nankin hens are losing the black in their tails...any suggestions on how to breed to get better black tails?

[nanfan]

Nicki, if you haven't noticed, the ones with the least amount of black in the wing tips also have the least amount of black in the tails.  These two areas are related and to get more black in the tails, there has to be more black in the wings.  The standard calls for light chestnut tails with an elongated blob of black at the end of the feathers.  I don't know how that is possible and still have black in the wings.  It just won't work that way.  If you use a hen with a tail like the standard description, the roos will have way too much red coloring in the tails.  I think the standard for hens should be revised to say black tails with the top feather strippled in light chestnut.  This can breed true in the hens and throw correctly colored cockerels at the same time.  Some things just don't work with a pair the way our standard is written at present.  I personally like the darker hen but I am getting the same variation in colors that you have.  I think our hens are getting too light in color and that makes a problem by perpetuating the same variation in the young between a light hen and a correctly colored cockbird.  In the older version of Fred Jeffry's book on bantams, the nankin is described as one shade darker than the New Hampshire.  Now, all that I have seen are lighter than the New Hampshire.  Charlie

[cuban]

You are exactly right Charlie.

Fred Jeffery does say the Nankin is one shade darker than a New Hamp. I also agree with you on the black in the wing and tail.

When you breed such a light colored female the undercolor will become white. According to our Std. that is a defect and if I remember correctly the British Std. says it is a serious defect (or a DQ in our venacular).

It would appear to me that the Std as written would require double mating.

Also, I disagree with the female being all the same color. I believe the hackle SHOULD BE one shade darker than the breast and back.

In my opinion, the type described is accurate. The male color description is fine, but the female color description is grossly inaccurate and after some debate (a year or so?), we need to come up with a consensus as a club and bring it to the ABA.

cuban

[nanfan]

  I agree that the type standard is good and that the description of the male color is fine but like you, I think that the written description of the female is unrealistic as far as breeding is concerned.  I think the lighter colored females are contributing to the almost two toned plumage that we are seeing in our females.  Some of the feathers are lighter in color, even after the moult on new feathers, and almost give a two-toned mottled effect.  At least this is what I am observing in my breedings. 
  I have observed another feature of the nankin's feathers.  If you pull a breast or hackle feather from a hen and hold it up to the light, there is a fine, fringed edge and I think that is where the lacing affect is coming from.  My other hen's feathers of other breeds are not like this.  Is this a nankin trait?  This looks like the outer fringe is about half as many seperate barbicles as the inner structure.  Charlie

[cuban]

That I had not noticed.

I have also seen the lacing you are talking about in the lighter females.

However, you didn't comment about the hackle color. What is your opinion?
cuban

[nanfan]

Cuban, In my darker hens, the hackles are almost the same shade as the rest of the body.  In the lighter hens, the hackle is darker.  I honestly don't have a clue which is correct for breeding but I prefer the darker ones since they are more uniform in color and breed true without the wide variation in color tones.  I have also noticed that my roos have a slightly lighter hackle than the backs and saddles.  This would be exactly opposite of the lighter hens.  In most of my roos, the wing bows are the darkest area.  Have you noticed this? Charlie

[Nicki]

When you breed such a light colored female the undercolor will become white. According to our Std. that is a defect and if I remember correctly the British Std. says it is a serious defect (or a DQ in our venacular).

So what color is the undercolor supposed to be?  I have some hens that are really light underneath and some that are black...I'm supposing the black is DQ?

[Mary Ann Harley]

Hey Everybody,

The dark or smutty undercolor is not correct.  The undercolor should be a light buff, but not white.  Don't try & get the females to light as this looks washed out in my experience.  Take your darkest male & put it with your lightest hen & see what you get.  I also think that trying to get the female a consistent buff color is unrealistic & the standard should be changed.

Mary Ann

[Nicki]

I'm not positive, but I don't think that any of mine have white undercoloring.  I think they have the light buff coloring (except for the ones with dark undercoloring, but I've taken them out of my breeding pens; they're just pets and broodies)

[AZ Chick]

I am going to have to go check undercolor in the girls. I know that all of mine are darker in the hackle than on the body.

[AZ Chick]

And speaking of color. I have had several good hatches of Nankins since Christmas, and don't want to make a mistake in culling. This is much easier for me to do as youngsters before I am attatched to them. I have some that are coming in with black ticking over the backs in the first feathers, do they ever molt these out, or will these birds always have black ticking?

[Nicki]

I've had some that had black ticking in their backs and later molt out to have an even color throughout.  I don't know if this is a set rule or anything, but I have had it happen.

[Mary Ann Harley]

I never cull until my Nankins are at least 9 months  or a year unless they have an obvious defect.  Crooked toes, etc..  Most of the time they will molt out really well.

Mary Ann