If, But, Maybe

[Mousy]

Hi,

Okay this is just a bit of a crazy idea from left field.

It is looking like I will be coming out to Philadelphia end of April/May.

So question:

1) Are their any Nankins in the area?

Now I'm not sure what is involved yet so I don't know if this is possible or too costly or what but question:

2) Would there be any merit/interest in hatching eggs accompanying me one way or the other or both?

At the moment this is just a floating theoretical idea, but....

Mousy.

PS Kind of feel that I'm a bit new and lacking in experience to be suggesting something like this, but I don't often go between the USA and UK.

[javacock]

Mousy:  Nice thought, BUT. . . a word to the wise:

You best check out the laws that allow or don't allow importation of eggs into the UK from another country.  The way things are right now, you could be in a world of hurt (mostly financial) if caught taking eggs or any animal product into your home country.  Be sure to check this very, very carefully before considering such a notion as this.  You could be breaking no telling how many laws by this action. 

javacock

[Mousy]

  Okay, I may not know at the moment what is involved with hatching eggs in and out of USA. But having traveled with dogs throughout Europe (and in and out of UK). Had a hand in exporting puppies to South Africa, Hawaii and Australia. Escorted Semen to Finland for AI, Hard Disk Drives in and out of Israel when their on a high alert status. And looked into export of hatching eggs from UK to France. I do understand the principles involved. My cost was the element was thinking about the cost of getting any paperwork done if for example your required to get a vet out to inspect the flock before export etc...
I may be a beginner with Nankins, but I've been involved with the showing, breeding etc of dogs my whole life. The reason I'm coming out to the USA is because the World Conference for Pyrenean Mountain Dogs (Great Pyrenees) is being held there.

Rules of the Game

1) Ask you AHO requirements.
2) Contact there equivalent in the country your dealing with.
3) Then go through both of them with a find tooth comb trying to marry the requirements up (in theory they should be identical but they rarely are!) get all queries resolved in writing form both sides. Triple check everything.
4) Never trust 'officials' to know what they are talking about make sure you know the system better than they do.
5) Call copies of all paperwork and correspondance.
6) Quadruple check all paperwork.
7) NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING.

Thanks for the concern, Javacock, but I wouldn't consider just trying to slip something in when flying internationally. However, I know from bitter experience with Semen, your better off hand carrying these things yourself than sending them by courier.

Mousy.

[Rog]

  Mousy   I checked into importing eggs or birds from the UK to the US about 3 years or so ago. Then the avian flu thing came up. That shut everything down. I know it still is in effect for some countrys. What we figured out would probably be the best way to get birds from the UK would be to ship them to Canada. The avian flu ban will be the first goal to get by. It included eggs also. Good luck.    Rog

[javacock]

Mousy:  Sounds like you may have the contacts and all the what ifs in place to pull it off.  If you can, my best to you!  Hope you can be successful in this endeavor.  Good luck!
javacock

[nankin3]

Mousy: Sounds like you may have the experience to get it done. What a great endeavor to bring new blood into such a great little bird. Both sides of the pond could benefit from it for generations of birds if you can make it happen. I say if you have the time and the resources go for it never hurts to try.
Good Luck,
Danny

[Mousy]

Okay, I've got the basics for import and export from the UK side, waiting on the USA side. But this kind of game requires 2 to Tango.

Export to the USA is more complicated than import to the UK. Unless I can get the USA side to agree to an ad hoc procedure (which is a possibility, but there's no guarantee, but not necessarily straight forward to achieve). Then it's not possible for someone like me. As the standard agreed protocol between the USA and UK only covers large scale, commercial export. So only a registered hatchery who is a member of the Poultry Health Scheme (therefore doing fortnightly Samonella testing which needs to be done for 6 months before export, members would be doing this anyway I think) can really do it. Now I can only think of one breeder who breeds Nankins in the UK that is likely to meet this criteria. I know that they do export hatching eggs all over the place, I don't know about the USA though. LordCluck may know someone else and I could ask around, but I wouldn't expect a long list! And I'm prepared to ask them if someone is interested, but it will also depend on what they are interested in.

Importing to the UK is kind of simpler (well as simple as things get which is not very). But will require health checks and certification from the flock the eggs are coming from etc. Providing a USA breeder is prepared to play the game is do able from my point of view. But there may be some logistical issues to sort out on the USA side. There are different rules if you are importing 19 or less eggs to 20 or more eggs.

Anyway I've got the details and info if anyone's interested in investigating this and taking it further.

Mousy.

[Mousy]

Hi Rog,

As you'll see Avian Flu is not a problem with exporting from the UK.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/poultry_eggs.shtml

There also needs to be a VS 17-129 apparently the fees are around $137.20 but depend on day and time of arrival. As I'm planning on arriving on a Sunday they'll probably be a bit higher.

Note so far I've just being looking at the Import/Export side, but customs, welfare in transport (don't laugh) regs all need checking out including the airlines transport policies yet.

The problem I need to negotiate is the UK health certification for the USA. As it currently stands only a registered hatchery who is a member of the UK's national Poultry Heath Scheme can get one. If I can't then I possibly know of someone else who may meet the criteria so that I could potentially still bring some eggs over with me. If I can get a different health certification protocol agreed then I could potential take my own eggs and it might make it easier of other UK breeders to provide eggs, but I want to keep it simple initially until I've got this better figured out. Which ever way from the UK side it's going to mean that for 90 days before travel no birds can be brought into contact with the flock provided the eggs and no birds leaving and coming back. This is a restriction I can plan round. Also from 30 onward various health tests need to be carried out including blood etc need to be done by a Ministry Vet. The folk also needs to be inspected by a Ministry Vet during the time frame that the hatching eggs are being collected. There are various bits of paperwork to be done including health certifications, transport, import/export permits. I'm not sure about any transport paperwork that will be needed state side or if they are going interstate how that would work. I'm hoping that if someone USA is interested in doing this they'll look into this. I've got a lot of this information but it's not weblinks I can email it to anyone who needs it.

The health certification from USA to UK looks simpler although there would need to be a ministry vet visit for the health certificates and some tests done. Each transport leg will need to be documented. Also there is really only one UK airport I can fly into the UK with them which is fine as I can fly from Heathrow rather than Bristol. One in the UK the eggs must go directly from the arrival point to the destination where they are going to be hatched. That then triggers a standstill. I.e. There can be no livestock movements off property until 3weeks after the last egg has hatched, plus between the eggs hatching and the 3 week limit there has to be a ministry vet inspection and more tests done. I've got a lot of this information but it's not weblinks I can email it to anyone who needs it. But here are some that cover the importation side:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/animaltrade/imports/iins/birds/a8.htm
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2008R0798:20090523:EN:PDF
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/animaltrade/imports/bips/index.htm
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalhealth/about-us/contact-us/animal-health-offices.htm

Note that for someone like me with less than 20 birds in a flock then all birds must be blood tested etc. (including my quail).
I think on the USA side it's just a case of testing the birds the eggs come from, but I'm still going through it.

What I'm hoping for if that I cover the Sterling costs. (I need to confirm how much they'd be), then the USA side cover the dollar costs and roughly similar quantities of eggs are exchanged it'll work out fair quid pro quo. But obviously there are never any garentees when dealing with hatching eggs it's a gamble.

Mousy.

[Mousy]

Hi,

Okay final score on this is that defra have agreed to look at their health certification for the USA so it's gone off to the policy department. Though I've been warned that this will not be a quick process.

Mousy.

[Mousy]

Okay, final score is: My trip to the USA is booked. DEFRA have revised their documentation so it is possible for me to export my own hatching eggs.

So it's just a case of is anyone interested?

Mousy.